Local Legend in Birmingham, Explains His Start in Real Estate
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Important Highlights:
0:51 – Bruce, local legend in Birmingham, explains his start in real estate 4:44 – Mistakes Bruce made over the years 8:35 – Bruce explains how he became successful in flipping homes 15:07 – How to find wholesales and flipping deals 17:41 – How many houses does Bruce look at until he finds the one? 19:47 – Joint venture deals 29:26 – Tips for beginners in flipping 30:46 – Bruce talks more about Joint Venture giveaway where 1 member gets to split the profit of the flip! 32:05 – Perks of Birmingham and why it is great for investing 35:23 – What Bruce sees in the next 12- 24 months for the real estate market
FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE PODCAST AUDIO
Bruce Glenn: I see so many people buying things and paying just so much money for. And it's tempting to buy stuff because you don't have a project going or you want another rental. Look, if the numbers just don't work, don't try to force something and make it work because it's going to catch up with you, one of those times, in the long run. Spencer Sutton: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Birmingham Real Estate Investor. We are glad you're here. I am one of your hosts, Spencer Sutton. My co-host is Matthew Whitaker, and today we have an old real estate friend of ours... Not old... Bruce, not that you're old. Matthew Whitaker: Not his age. We're just saying how long we've known you, Bruce. Spencer Sutton: We've known you for a long time, Bruce. Bruce Glenn: That's okay. Everybody says I'm old so I can handle it. Spencer Sutton: Listen. No, that's not the case, but Bruce is a local legend here in Birmingham. He's done a lot and so we're going to get into that, but some of the highlights that I'm sitting here thinking of... Bruce, you've been an appraiser here in the Birmingham area for many years. You have a very successful flipping business, Innovative Renovations, where you're buying and rehabbing and selling houses. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Spencer Sutton: And then, you most recently just launched... kind of a soft launch, but it's probably, by the time we have this podcast out... A coaching program called, Flippin Bruce. Bruce Glenn: Correct. Spencer Sutton: And that came along with your very first book, which is, First Flip. So, Bruce, you've been busy and welcome to the show. Bruce Glenn: Thank you very much. Yeah, it has been kind of a crazy year, but a good year. Very good. So, yeah. Spencer Sutton: Awesome. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. Spencer put it on me to ask the first question, but after that intro I don't even know where to go. My mind is going in a million different directions. But I think the best thing to do, Bruce, would be to tell us how you got started in the real estate business. Bruce Glenn: Sure. Well, I am old and it has been a long time, but actually... And I moved down from the North down here to Birmingham about early 1970s, just finished high school. And I went to work for a company, just out of high school, just doing maintenance and painting and doing rehab work on apartments. I got my hands dirty and was just doing a lot of the actual work. And that just got me liking real estate from the very beginning. Bruce Glenn: But, after that, I moved up to Denver, Colorado for... I think I was up there for seven years and that's actually where I did my first flip. I'd done some work for a friend and she had the opportunity to buy a four-unitted building. And she just wanted to go in with me, and I do all the work and she would fund the project. So that was like 1985 and I've been hooked ever since. That really got me.... I just love real estate. Bruce Glenn: So from there, I ended up moving back to Birmingham about 1990 and that's when I became... I started training as a real estate appraiser. And got my license in about '93 or '94, something like that. So I've been doing appraising for close to 30 years. And with having that background, I never lost touch of looking for houses. So I started picking up a house here and there, but mainly just doing it on my own. And it was just a few. One a year, one every couple years. It wasn't much. But then, I guess, over the mid-90s, late 90s, it just started ramping up and it just seemed like more opportunities came to buy and everything. And then, I don't know what time... When did you guys get into... Because I started buying a bunch of houses from you guys. Spencer Sutton: Yeah. So we got to know each other. We bought a HomeVestor franchise here in Birmingham, which is the We Buy Ugly Houses people. And so, I started my wholesaling in December of 2003. I quit my job. I had a partner doing... I quit my job in April, I think, of 2004. So that's probably around in 2004 might've been the first time we met and then Matthew jumped into the wholesaling business shortly after that. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah, I was '05, so we did sell you a bunch of houses back then. Bruce Glenn: Exactly. Yeah. I remember. I mean, we got some good deals. That was when you guys were kind of the... I don't want to say the only wholesalers, but basically, the wholesalers around town. So we did a lot of deals. And that's kind of in the mid-2000s, early 2000s, started ramping up. And when you guys came on, we bought a lot and we were doing... I don't know how many, probably eight or 10 a year at that point. But then we were also buying houses and keeping rental properties because we had about... I think before everything hit in 2007-08, we had about 16 rental houses too. And then everything hit. Matthew Whitaker: Talk about some of the mistakes that you feel like you've made and learned from them and things...we all... Spencer and I have a laundry list of things we wish we had done better or faster. Spencer Sutton: Yeah. Matthew Whitaker: Tell us a few of your, kind of, things you've learned over the years of investing. Bruce Glenn: Well, I'll tell you, the 2007, 2008-09 era, I learned a lot. I mean, I learned a lot. I mean, it was horrible and I don't ever want to go through it again, but in a lot of ways, is a blessing. I mean, there was so many things. I don't have rentals now, but I'm going to get back into rentals and I've been looking at them to do it again. But I'm going to do it totally different. Bruce Glenn: I mean, in theory, the way I was doing it, we were buying stuff and we were kind of doing what everybody calls, the BRRR, the B-R-R-R, now, but I mean, that's how it worked back then. You just buy something, renovate it, refinance it, and then do another one. And that's just how we did it. But, what I did, I was putting 15 year notes on all the properties. And what I thought was cash-flowing... They weren't cash-flowing. I mean, $100 to $150 a month is not cash-flowing. You know what I mean? Just.... Spencer Sutton: Not with Birmingham rentals. Bruce Glenn: No, it just... But, we were doing so many flips and then I had my appraisal business. And so everything was... We had plenty of money on this side, so I didn't even think... I wasn't worried. I was just trying to get that paid for. That was going to be my retirement. So that was a big, big mistake. I mean, I'm a lot more conservative with what I want as far as cash flows with stuff. And I probably wouldn't do 15, unless the numbers were really good and I got a steal or something, I probably wouldn't do 15. You can always pay more on something and do a 30 year if you've got the extra cash. But you just never thought that things were going to change that much or turn that much. Bruce Glenn: So the other thing, I mean, I live like a lot of people. I had new cars, I had high credit card debts. We were just living the good life and just not thinking it could change. Well now I don't have any debt. I have my house and that's it. I mean, credit cards get paid off every month. It's just a lot different, but I sleep real well. I don't worry about... Because honestly, anybody that went through all that period does not want to go through it again, you know? Bruce Glenn: And so you got to do... You make some adjustments. So those are a couple of the big things. And then also I see so many people buying things and paying just so much money for. And it's tempting to buy stuff because you don't have a project going or you want another rental. If the numbers just don't work, don't try to force something and make it work because it's going to catch up with you one of those times in the long run. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. I'm reading a book called Poor Charlie's Almanac, and I've read it a number of times and that's one of their big... He is Warren Buffett's partner and that's one of the things they say is, there's nothing wrong with sitting on the sidelines with a bunch of cash and waiting on the right opportunity. Don't buy a deal just because you need something to do. That's not a wise decision. Spencer Sutton: And I think I probably did that back in those days. I was buying whatever houses I could look at. I mean, we would make offers if they took them, we'd buy them. And then a poor strategy was... I was... If I couldn't wholesale it out to somebody like you, Bruce, because everybody looked at it said, "No, I don't want it." I'd just stick it in a rental portfolio. And that's not a good way to build your rental portfolio either. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. With all the duds. The market is telling you something. "We don't want this house." Nobody else wants it. I guess I'll keep it for a long time. Spencer Sutton: Oh, it's got to be a great house. Yeah. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. I've been there, done that. I know exactly. So... Yeah. Spencer Sutton: So you got hit hard with the recession, '07. We all did. The three of us who were sitting here talking today, felt the pain. It was like I got punched in the stomach. So tell me, how did you... Because now you have a successful real estate career, how did you come back from such a blow, like '07-'08? Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Well, I'll be honest, for a few years I didn't come back. My appraisal business, I lost just about 80% of my appraisal business on top of all the flipping and the rentals and everything else was gone. I mean, I held on, I had some savings and I thought I was going to be able to make it, but it took so long to come back. I did file a bankruptcy in about 2011 or '12. I mean, I just, I couldn't make it. Bruce Glenn: So, I was kind of... I'll be honest, I was almost angry. When I saw it was all coming in, I called every lender we had, all the houses and said, "Listen, this is what's headed. What can we do?" Nobody would talk to me. They said, "Hey, you got great credit. You've never made a late payment." And I'm like, "I understand that, but that's why I'm calling you now because it's coming." And nobody worked... Some of the banks that we had these lines of credit, it was like I'd get a call and I didn't even know what calling a line in was. I mean, it was... I'd never heard of... Spencer Sutton: It wasn't heard of back in the day, right. Bruce Glenn: Exactly. And one of the bankers called me and said, "Bruce, we're going to have to call that line in." And I'd be like, "What is... I don't even know what that is." And he's like, "Well, you've got to pay it off." And it was like 300,000. And I said, "How... When?" He said, "30 days." And I'm like, "You got to be kidding me." Bruce Glenn: And so, so anyhow. I... For a couple of years, I just didn't even want to do anything, I was just like... I mean, I worked with my appraisals, did what I could to get by. But it just... Then I saw some old friends buying some stuff up and I'm like, "There's some opportunities out there. And so, I got back, but I didn't... I just... I knew it wasn't going to have a lot of debt. So I paid cash for everything for a few years. I mean, I didn't even have... I didn't even worry about my credit. My credit scores were low and I just didn't even try. I was like, "I don't care about all that." And then after a couple of years, I'm like, "Okay, I got to get back in the game and start working on my credit and start..." Got a line of credit and did this and that, and got... Met people to partner with and do all that. Bruce Glenn: So, but it took a couple years. And then for the... Oh, maybe the first three or four years, I would just do maybe three or four year flips. Because I was working... My appraisal business was coming back and we were doing a lot more work there. So I had a good income there, but just enough to keep things going, maybe one house at a time, if I did three a year. Bruce Glenn: And then, I don't know, I just... About three years ago, I decided that I wanted to see about ramping it up and just picking things up. So I just made a concerted effort to try to get to 10 or 12 a year. And so I just sat down and, "What do I need to do? How do I need to get to 12? What financing do I need? I need X amount of dollars more, I need more contacts. I need more leads to get houses." Whatever it might be. And just sat down, and then within about six to 12 months, I... Last couple of years, I've done 10 or 12 a year. And I still work 40 or 50 hours a week with my appraisal business. So... Matthew Whitaker: And when you said 10 to 12 a year, these are homes flips? Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Flips. Yes. Single family house flips. Right. Matthew Whitaker: So what do you look for when you're looking to buy a home deal like that, to flip? Bruce Glenn: Typically the worst condition, the better for me, and the better ones are that if they're so bad, they can't get financing. Because then I don't have competition with somebody that wants to live in a neighborhood. I mean, I look at a lot of stuff in Hoover and I looked at one last year that... It was really dated and... But it could get conventional financing. Well, they ran up the price like 50,000 over what I could pay for it because it was a owner occupant could live in there. Bruce Glenn: So the first thing is, the worst condition, the better. That's kind of what I look for. The good thing about being an appraiser, I know all over Birmingham. I mean, I flipped... It's 20 miles North, 20 miles South, East, West, I go everywhere. Because I know pockets... There's pockets of areas all over town that you can flip in. A lot of guys just have a little area that they know and that's their neighborhood or a couple of neighborhoods, but I go all over town. So it kind of opens up a little bit more for me that way. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. You mentioned something that I actually...gift advice. If you have the luxury of being an appraiser or being an agent and you're all over town, then certainly you can invest all over town. But I think one of the most important things is, if you're getting started and you're not living here, is focusing on one area and becoming an expert in that area first. Most people don't have the luxury of becoming an expert in all of Birmingham when you're starting. Matthew Whitaker: The other thing I think that's important you said is, when you got back, kind of starting as... You started small, I mean, you started with one, sounds like a quarter, and then you started to ramp it up once you started to get some momentum. And there's no shame in starting small and kind of getting your feet wet, making sure that you're headed in the right direction and that you're building a real business around it. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. That's, no, that's exactly right. Because, I guess, we were doing so much and had so much going on before and then when the bottom fell out, like I say, I didn't want it. So if I was doing one or two, I knew that, hey, even worse case scenario, if something goes wrong with that one that I'm doing, I'm fine. You know what I mean? There is no issues. So, and even now, if I'm doing 10 a year, I've got enough investors where it's spread apart, that I'm still not going to get hit hard enough to where it's going to put me under. I mean, it's just not going to happen. So yeah. Bruce Glenn: But I agree. Starting out slow. And that's the same thing when I... because I've taught classes here in town and spoken at some of the REIA groups and I tell people, "Just stay in an area that you know, become an expert in that area." Because most people aren't like myself, we're realtors that go all over the place. That's not... so get an area and learn it really well, and then go from there. Spencer Sutton: Bruce, talk a little bit about how you find deals. So you're a busy guy, right? You're in the appraisal business. How do you find deals? Does it maybe something... I mean, because people who listen to this podcast are interested in Birmingham real estate, whether it's longterm hold for rentals or wholesaling, flipping. So talk a little bit about how you find deals. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. I've just built a lot of relationships all right, but my main ways are wholesalers. Probably, I still buy stuff from wholesalers. However, it's changed a little bit from when you guys were doing it. And there's a lot more people that say wholesalers... Spencer Sutton: There's a ton of people in it. Bruce Glenn: ...And where you guys used to purchase a property, everybody just now puts it under contract. Well, anybody can do that. And so it's a lot harder, you got to sift through those wholesalers. But I've got a few that I know pretty well. And they will call me if they see a house that thinks it fits what I need. So developing those relationships with wholesalers. Bruce Glenn: I still get a lot from realtors. Now when you're doing flips, one of the things that I do, is if a realtor brings me an off-market deal, or even if it's on-market and it just happens... But that's kind of rare. But a lot of times they'll have a client that has a house, it's just totally in disrepair. They don't want to list it because it's going to be a hassle to put on the market. So they bring it to me and I buy it. Once I fix it up, I give it to the realtor to sell. So that's just an incentive for them to bring it to me. So that's probably wholesalers and that are my two main ways. Bruce Glenn: Now I bought off the auction sites. I bought a couple of... If you have time... I just don't have time to sit and watch all the auctions and keep that going. But auction sites, I bought a couple from. And really still MLS. I had a friend that... They had a lot more time than I did. And I said, well, one way I used to buy was, stuff that had been on the market for 300 days or you pick a number, you say, okay, something that's been on the market forever. Spencer Sutton: "I want to look at every house in this certain area that's been on the market over X amount of days." Bruce Glenn: Exactly, because it might be one in 10, but you could go out there and make offers or take a look at 10 of them. Maybe one out of 10 or two out of 10 is... You've hit them at the right time where they're just done. They've had it on the market for so long and they're ready to move on. And so I used to... Like I say, it takes a little bit of time, but it's free. I mean, it doesn't cost you any money, but just costs you that time to do the research. And that's worked for me in the past. So those are kind of the main ways. Spencer Sutton: How many houses would you say you look at, to buy one? Bruce Glenn: Now fortunately I can do a lot of the looking online, where I used to have to go out a lot more, but I still have to go out. But it could be 15, 20, sometimes... But it's weird because you'll sit there and go along and you'd look at 20 houses, 25 houses, you don't find anything. And then all of a sudden in one week two pop up that are really good and you buy two. And so, but you... It's probably at least 15 or 20. Matthew Whitaker: And where are you getting your money now? Do you have bank lines of credit? Are you... I know you're utilizing some investor relationships. Talk about that a little bit. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Because I didn't have a line of credit or didn't have credit scores or anything to begin with. So I had actually a couple of friends that had money and that's how I started back the second time around. And so we just did some JV deals, joint venture deals. And that's been probably my main way. And then from one person leads to another and say, "Hey, so-and-so's got some money then they're looking for somewhere to put it." And it's been really, fairly easy for me to get money. Honestly, I know that's a... but I've got a fair amount of experience. So people are pretty comfortable doing a joint venture deal with me because I do have that experience. Plus, I mean, house is going to be titled in their name. So it's not like if they put a couple hundred thousand dollars out there, they're not going to lose 200,000, they still have an asset. So joint ventures are... Bruce Glenn: But now I also have a line of credit, so I do smaller stuff with my own line or I may do some hard money to purchase and then use my money to do renovation. So I've got about three or four different ways that... I've got a couple of banks that will loan... Some of the smaller banks will talk to you about loaning for flips, but it's a little bit more time consuming. And it's really just like, I mean... If you have to move in a hurry, it's kind of hard. But I've got one bank here that if I have 30 to 45 days, they'll do it. But you do have to pay closing costs. You got to do all that. But the rate's a lot better than hard money. So it's kind of a wash, but there's a lot of different ways. Spencer Sutton: Tell us how you structure those JV deals. Because I would think, especially for people who are kind of just getting into the business, they hear joint venture... What makes sense for them to partner with, and what makes sense for an investor to say, "Yeah, this is worth my money." Bruce Glenn: Yeah. The way mine are structured, and hey, it's all negotiable. It's all negotiable. But the way I do mine is, I don't put... I have no money in... When I do a joint venture, there's no money at my side of the end. So my investor has everything. They purchase it, pay for renovation costs, pay all the holding costs, pay everything. But they don't do anything else. I mean, I have one investor that halftime, he doesn't even see the houses. He doesn't even know where they are. He couldn't care less, he just wants the return. So... But I do everything, I'll find the property, run the renovation, work with the realtors, get it sold and everything. Matthew Whitaker: You run all the numbers by them as well, too, right? Bruce Glenn: Exactly, yeah. Matthew Whitaker: You put up a performer and say, "Hey, this is exactly what's going to happen." Bruce Glenn: Exactly, yeah. I'll come to them. And they... My guys know me so well, I'll come and say, hey. I'll email and say, "This is a house I found. This is what I think it's going to renovate... This one's going to sell for." And honestly, within 10 minutes I usually get, "Yeah, go for it." I mean, so it's like... But I mean, it's been pretty easy. Bruce Glenn: But then, what we do is a 50-50 split. So when it's all said and done, we sell that property, they get paid back every dime that they put into it. And then we look at the profit and we split it 50-50. Now it's good for them because I'm able to turn that around and they make... It's all going to vary. Every house is different, but I don't think, with the exception of one or two, they haven't made 10 or 12% on their money and sometimes 30% on their money. I mean, so it's a pretty good rate of return that they're getting. And for me, it's just my time putting it. The more efficient I can be with having crews and having done... I don't put as much time into it as I used to. So it's a pretty good return for me too, so... Matthew Whitaker: I think this is very similar to how I got started. I always tell the story that I had a lot of time and no money. And I met some people that had a lot of money and no time. And there are people out there like that, whether they're friends and family that would love to invest alongside of you, but don't have the time to go do the diligence. So what a great opportunity for people that are listening to this to get started. If you don't have money, that's not an excuse not to get started. Spencer Sutton: I agree. And I think that's probably a big excuse people use or a fear that they have like, "Oh, I can't, I don't have the money. Nobody would ever loan me money. I'm just getting started out." I mean, all you have to do is find somebody who's really interested in real estate. And if you can be patient and be diligent, kind of what you've been talking about Bruce, in finding a good deal, there is money for those deals, I think. All over the place. Bruce Glenn: I agree. That's what... When we started with my old partner, David Thomas... I remember the first thing he said to me, he goes, "Money's not going to be a problem." We were putting this whole thing together and I'm like, "Money's not going to be a problem?" I'm like, "Money's always a problem." But he was so right. I mean, money is really the least problem because if you can find a deal and you can show somebody with money, that they can make a good return, they're going to be... I mean, there are a lot of people that are open to that because there is a lot of money out there. Bruce Glenn: And that's part of the thing... When I'm teaching class, I tell everybody just... you've got to be pretty knowledgeable though. I mean, because somebody has got a lot of money. They've got a lot of money for a reason. They've been smart with it. And so you can't come to them and not know your numbers. You can't come to them and not know. You got to know, "Hey, this is what I can get it for. I've got all the estimates for renovation and I've got a contract that's given me these prices. Hey, and this is what realtor... We've got all these comps," I show them comps, "if you want, and this is what we sell it for." So then they can have a confidence in the project too. Once you get that, you'd be surprised that people come forward. Yeah. Matthew Whitaker: That's some great advice. When I'm out pitching for investors to... Investors just want the deal. They want it to be buttoned up. They don't want any... I used to pitch it with a, "Well, tell me what you would be willing to do..." type. And all they want to know is, is it to be a yes or no? So you need to put together the deal and then take it to the investor. And especially when somebody has a track record like you, then it becomes the 10 minute email back, yes. But you need to... Advice is, make sure it's all buttoned up and put together. And make it a yes or no. Bruce Glenn: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Spencer Sutton: So in Birmingham. I mean, I know you're doing flips. I know that you're doing flips in a lot of A-class neighborhoods, B-class neighborhoods. Think about where would you... where are you also looking at rentals? Because I know that this is something that's in your future, you're planning on doing that. Tell us how you look at rentals, Bruce. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. One of the things... I had a friend a few years ago, she was showing me some of the stuff she was buying when... Oh man, I guess it's been about six years ago. So she was picking up some foreclosures after all the mess. But she was picking up a lot of garden homes down to the South. These houses were maybe five, 10 years old. They weren't very old. And she was picking these things up in foreclosure for like 75, $80,000. And then she would put her money in it and she'd have, I mean, great cash-flowing properties. Bruce Glenn: But I like the idea of having, and these are down in areas like Pelham, Alabaster, Calera. All down to the South where they had a lot of new developments, but they got hit hard with foreclosures. I liked the idea of having some newer houses in a little bit better area. I think Spencer, you know that townhouse I just found in an Alabaster, which would have been a great rental. I was going to do it for rental, but somebody came along and offered me money for it. And I think I'm going to sell it, but anyhow. But that's a great area though. I like that... Bruce Glenn: And I don't count on appreciation, all right. I never would count on appreciation when I was doing rentals, but I like being in an area where there's a good chance that you are going to see some appreciation. Because too many times I see people... And I've done so many appraisals for investors that were in C or D areas that paid good money for them. But then the house gets trashed. And that house, it was good money at 75,000 gets trashed and it's 25,000. Because it's in a neighborhood that when they're trash, they're worth low. But if you go into a better neighborhood, even if it gets trashed, it's never going to get hit that hard. I mean, it's going to get hit, but not that hard. So that's kind of the areas. Now, but I will look like out in Hueytown, it's kind of a C, probably, area. And there are some pockets out in Hueytown, I would have rentals all day long. And some out in Forestdale, I looked at one the other day out there and thought about, as far as a rental. And those are probably B to C areas. Spencer Sutton: Pleasant Grove. Bruce Glenn: Pleasant Grove is a great area. Yeah. Spencer Sutton: So these are some areas that we've heard from other guests talking about places they would buy rentals. They're just good areas, still a lot of home ownership. Bruce Glenn: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Matthew Whitaker: I'm interested in your coaching business. So you're launching this coaching business and what are you going to be teaching the people that are coming to work with you? Bruce Glenn: Well, the first off it's flippinbruce.com and it's just starting out as a membership website. And so what we're doing is every week I'm doing a coaching call with everybody, anybody that wants to get on there, just taking a different topic every week. And we go through that and then open it up for questions. And I open it up for questions because some of these people have projects going on and they want to know something. So I just open it up to anything. And as long as I'm there answering questions, people can stay or go or whatever. So that's kind of one of the main things. And then I've got examples and case studies of different properties that I've done, before and after pictures, all the numbers, what the renovations costs were, what the profits were, everything. So people can kind of really see exactly how a flip works and how... The numbers that have worked for me. Bruce Glenn: Also I'm doing, is going out to houses that I own now and doing videos, update videos. So we're starting files on the website to show people. They can sit down and once we have a number of houses, they can pick a house and maybe watch 10 videos of that house from beginning to end. So they can really kind of show them the process and things we run into. Because it's all... None of it's scripted. It's just, "Hey, this is what happened this week," and I just let people know. So that's kind of the main part. Bruce Glenn: And then we've got a course that we're putting together. I've got the book that I just wrote. But, we haven't firmed it up yet, but the premise is going to be like a group coaching type of thing where I'll take maybe 10, 15 people and go through this course. I've got about 18 modules and every week we'll go through about three modules and do it for like six weeks. But it'll be one-to-one with... I'll be there every week with them and showing them, going through it and then at the end of the course, they get like a 30 minute to an hour consultation with me if they've got any projects going on, that type of thing. Bruce Glenn: So that's kind of in the works. We're all just getting it off the ground right now, but that's going to be kind of the main coaching part. But in general, it's a membership site just to get a lot of people involved and just showing them what we do. Matthew Whitaker: Can you give us some examples of some things that new investors that are just getting into flipping ask? Bruce Glenn: Yeah. There's all kinds of things. Because it's like what's Spencer... How do you find deals? Where do you find...? Because people struggle with... Because it's difficult to find deals, I mean, you've got to put some effort into it. But there are a lot of ways that are free or relatively free, that I can show people on MLS. I just don't have the time to really work on the MLS and go search and search. But they are there. Bruce Glenn: Auction sites are another good way. So people... I'll show them, "Hey, pick an auction site and just keep watching it, kind of learn how that site works, to watch for properties. Money is always a thing. We have a whole couple series of just how to approach people. And I show people what to put down when we talked about coming to somebody. You don't come to somebody with just a vague thing, "Hey, I got a house and you can make a lot of money." You got to have numbers, you got to have it all laid out. So show people that. That's kind of all the in beginning. Bruce Glenn: But then there is just... We get into the renovation process. What do I think is important to do at renovating? What are some of the things that... Maybe a little extras, depending on the neighborhood, you want to do these extras or not. Trying to keep your costs in line. There's just a ton of stuff to go over that we go over, so... Matthew Whitaker: That's very exciting. It sounds like... and I can't wait to read the book too. We'll be excited to get a copy of that. Spencer Sutton: It's on Amazon, get it now. Bruce Glenn: It's Amazon right now, they won't be this... But we're, right now, we've got a 99 cent deal going on. You can download it off of Amazon. And as a matter of fact, Spencer, you saw, but it was number one in the category that we picked up last night. Yeah, it was pretty funny. But I've gotten some real good feedback so far, yeah I can get that. Bruce Glenn: And then one thing about... On the website, and I haven't even talked about, but this house that we're doing out in Irondale right now, we bought it and I'm doing weekly updates on it. And what we're going to do is I'm calling it the JV giveaway house. So it's a joint venture. What I'm going to do is pick a member at the beginning of December, we're going to pick one member and I'm willing to split the profit with that member. So I'm taking it. So no matter what, if I make $20,000, I'm going to cut somebody a check for 10,000, so... Matthew Whitaker: I'm joining now. Bruce Glenn: That's why I've got a couple of people just join saying, "I don't care. I just want to get in on the drawing." But I thought it's just, it's fun and... But it keeps people's attention. And now they're always wanting to hear about the JV house, how it's going, when it's going to be done and all that. So you I'm just, I'm having fun. Spencer Sutton: That's awesome. Matthew Whitaker: Bruce, what do you like about Birmingham? For somebody that doesn't live here, kind of give your kind of insider view of Birmingham, especially from a guy that drives around all day. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. I like Birmingham a lot and probably one of the big things is when we were going big back in the 2000s and my partner, David, he kept wanting to go to Florida. Florida was just the hot market. Everybody was going down to Florida. Flip houses. Matthew Whitaker: With the condos, that would have been bad. Bruce Glenn: Exactly. And I kept telling him, I'm like, "David, no. I just... It's just, if we go in at the wrong time, one condo, we've lost everything. I mean, it's like, no, that..." And so Birmingham is just not this stuff, Birmingham is just... Which I like so much better. I mean, as far as... If something gets hit here, yeah it gets hit, but it's just not to the extremes. And Birmingham's affordable... Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. Bruce, let me stop you one second. Just for context, Bruce was saying not the sharp up and downs. He was doing it with his hands for those that are... Spencer Sutton: Broadcast listeners. Matthew Whitaker: He was saying, "Hey, the highs aren't as high, but the lows aren't as low. It's a little more of a Steady Eddy market." Bruce Glenn: Yeah. There you go. Thank you, I forgot that it's not all video. But yeah, exactly. I mean, because we're... Things were going up, like my brother in San Diego, his value of his condo kept going up like 25% a year, something absurd. And I kept telling him and he kept refinancing. I'm like, "Don't do this", because it can't keep like that. Bruce Glenn: In Birmingham you don't have that. And then Birmingham is just much more affordable. I mean, you can go get a decent house out in... I mean, Hueytown, we bought some neat stuff for a hundred, $125,000, really nice houses. So anyhow, I like Birmingham a lot. Spencer Sutton: So what are your... And that's one of the things, we were literally just talking to a guy who was talking... He was telling us what he loves about Birmingham, mentions the same type of stuff. It's the healthcare, it's the varied education here so that when an economy gets hit, it doesn't get hit as hard. So there's some good steady professions here. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. That's true. And diversity, there's a lot of diversity because... When I lived in Colorado, Colorado was, back in the early '80s was totally dependent on the oil industry. Colorado in Denver in particular, oil was like 50% of the job market and everything... When the bottom fell out on oil, when I left Denver, it was I think a 30% vacancy rate in about 1985 in Denver. I bought a condo in '83 in Denver for $72,000. In '85, when I left, it was worth $38,000. And this was in a nice neighborhood. Spencer Sutton: It's changed a lot. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. It's definitely changed. We have an office there and it is... Bruce Glenn: Yeah, oh, it's great now. But back then, see, they were building at about 10 or 12% a year because the population was growing about 10 to 12. But then all of a sudden they kept building and then the population just shot, dead stopped growing. And it was a nightmare for a few years, so... Matthew Whitaker: So what does the future hold, Bruce? Where do you see yourself over the next 12 to 24 months? Bruce Glenn: Well, I hate to be a... I don't want to be... Sound pessimistic, but I mean, I just think we're going to see a turn here. I would say in the next six, nine months. I just think it's inevitable. I mean, right now the government's got everything propped up, which I think they have to do, but that's got to end at some point. And I do... A lot of my appraisal work is for some foreclosure attorneys and that work has about doubled in the last month. And I hate to be that... But I really think there's just going to be some stuff coming around the corner. And, I hate it, but... And I hope I'm wrong. I wish I'm wrong, but I kind of don't think... But I'm going to be prepared to be buying some more foreclosures and stuff. I mean, I just think there's going to be more opportunities, so... Matthew Whitaker: And that was my follow up question. Do you think that that's just going to generate more opportunities for savvy investors? Bruce Glenn: Yeah. I think there'll be a lot of opportunities. So I'm still buying now. I'm not stopping buying, but I'm just trying to be cautious and not pay too much just because if things start to turn, I just don't want to get stuck. And that's the other good thing about Birmingham. It's usually doesn't take that much of a dive. I mean if I buy something, I still have two or three months, four months I can sell it and I'm not going to take a bath, usually, so. But I do think, come spring time, I think there's going to be a lot more opportunities, yeah. Spencer Sutton: I used to always look at Atlanta and think that Atlanta was probably three or four months ahead of Birmingham and say, "Hey, I can look at the temperature of Atlanta and if it starts to tank, then we're not going to be far behind." But I still had some time. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. That's exactly... We used to do the same thing. Spencer Sutton: That's exactly... Yeah. Spencer Sutton: All right. Well, Bruce, this has been awesome. Bruce Glenn: Good deal. Spencer Sutton: Bruce, thank you so much. This was incredibly insightful. I appreciate your time. Bruce Glenn: Oh, thank you guys. I enjoyed it. Spencer Sutton: And so if people want to get in touch with you, then they can reach you at... You want them to reach out to Flippin Bruce? Bruce Glenn: Yeah probably do bruce@flippinbruce.com. Spencer Sutton: Okay. All right. Does flipping have a G in it, or just Flippin? Bruce Glenn: No, just Flippin. Spencer Sutton: Okay flippinbruce.com. Bruce Glenn: Yeah, I got that domain name about five years ago. It came to me and I was like, "I like that." And then I didn't do anything for about three years and I'm like, okay, I got it though. Matthew Whitaker: I've got a few of those too. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Matthew Whitaker: And also if you're listening, go out and make sure you get Bruce's book First Flip. If you're interested in learning how to flip, there's a lot of good information in there. So... Bruce Glenn: Thank you. Matthew Whitaker: Well, good deal Bruce. Spencer Sutton: For 99 cents, why wouldn't you? Yeah, hurry, limited time only. Bruce Glenn: Yeah. Right. All right, guys. Well, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Spencer Sutton: Thanks Bruce. Matthew Whitaker: Thank you Bruce. Bruce Glenn: All right, we'll see you.
